Gap between sentences

[torchtrust]

Hi,
I am back on the TTs engine in DAISY pipeline again. I can control the gap between the paragraphs and headings using css:
h1 { pause-before: 1500ms; volume: x-loud }
h2 { pause-before: 1000ms; volume: loud }
book {speech-rate: -12% }
p { pause-after: 1100ms }
p.quotation { pitch: high }

but can we control the gap between sentences? is it fixed at 1 second? I am finding it a little long and I would like to reduce it so the speech flows more naturally.
Thanks
Paul

[bertfrees]

The gap between sentences is not fixed at 1 second, but it is fixed. The gap is determined on the level of the engines. It seems that it is generally 250ms. To control this gap, CSS isn't really appropriate, but a possibility could be to add a new setting.

Another possibility could be to have the speech-rate property affect the length of the gap. E.g. in your example, the 250ms could be reduced by 12%. Perhaps this would already make it sound more natural.

[torchtrust]

Thanks for getting back to me Bert. when I measure it in an audio editing software it says it's about 1 second. 250ms would be more natural. I am using Azure and Ryan. I am stuck to know why it is so long. When I have some time I will try to play with the settings. Thanks Paul

[bertfrees]

I'll be doing some testing...

[torchtrust]

I am having trouble getting a small test ePub. I deleted a load of files and Sigil passes it. ACE has a few serious but not life threatening issues but DAISY Pipeline falls over! (EPUB to DAISY) [content.opf passes xml validation in NotePad++]
View all messages

Loading EPUB
WARNING - unable to load file:/G:/.shortcut-targets-by-id/1htlFJQdTqOoUZ567GZr1QgL4o-Un9akM/Braille%20Books%20Available%20on%20Request/BRF/John%20a%20Commentary/PBC_John%20-%20test.epub!/OEBPS/content.opf as XML; trying as text...
WARNING - Could neither retrieve file from memory nor disk: file:/G:/.shortcut-targets-by-id/1htlFJQdTqOoUZ567GZr1QgL4o-Un9akM/Braille%20Books%20Available%20on%20Request/BRF/John%20a%20Commentary/PBC_John%20-%20test.epub!/OEBPS/content.opf
ERROR - Either a source document, an initial template or an initial function must be specified (Please see detailed log for more info.)
job.log

Any ideas?
thanks
Paul

[bertfrees]

Can you send me the content.opf?

[torchtrust]

sent direct to your gmail

[bertfrees]

Hmm, nothing unusual to see in the OPF file. But for some reason Pipeline can't load it. Could you send me the whole EPUB? I need to run it and see where it goes wrong.

[torchtrust]

Thanks Bert, I have sent you directly the test ePub Kind regards Paul

…

On Fri, 7 Feb 2025 at 14:25, Bert Frees ***@***.***> wrote: Hmm, nothing unusual to see in the OPF file. But for some reason Pipeline can't load it. Could you send me the whole EPUB? I need to run it and see where it goes wrong. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#813 (reply in thread)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AASSUUPWHZD2KJLJHNVEMUD2OS65PAVCNFSM6AAAAABWMJKBAWVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43URDJONRXK43TNFXW4Q3PNVWWK3TUHMYTEMBZGQ4DQNA> . You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: ***@***.***>

-- *Paul Wood* Head of Technical Services *Torch Trust* Torch House, Torch Way, Market Harborough, Leics. LE16 9HL, UK Direct Line: *+44(0)1858 438269* Mobile: *+44(0)7521 514212* Tel: *+44(0)1858 438260* Email: ***@***.*** Websites: www.torchtrust.org www.sightlossfriendlychurch.org.uk <https://torchtrust.org/sight-loss-friendly-church> Facebook: Torch-Trust <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Torch-Trust/209414622516639> Twitter: @torchtrust <https://twitter.com/TorchTrust> YouTube: Torch Trust on Video <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjh3k2t6SckTWOtQZNmkN8w> [image: Walking By Faith from Torch Trust - Listen to us on your favourite podcast platform, or here on website torchtrust.org/radio-podcasts] <https://www.torchtrust.org/radio> [image: Registered with the Fundraising Regulator] <https://www.fundraisingregulator.org.uk/> Charity No. 1095904 Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the intended recipient please destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. The computer from which this mail originates is equipped with virus screening software. However Torch Trust cannot guarantee that the mail and its attachments are free from virus infection.

[bertfrees]

@torchtrust I used the test EPUB that you sent me, and I could convert it to DAISY without issues.

I'm going to use this EPUB to do some testing.

[torchtrust]

OK, good! Thanks Bert. I measure 1.38 seconds between sentences.

[bertfrees]

Yes, I measure the same.

I have noticed that this is only an issue with Azure voices. If I use a macOS voice, sentences are stuck together without any breaks, which is also not sounding natural at all.

When I drop the break of 250 ms, the gap is only about 1.1 seconds long. This sounds already pretty natural to me (as opposed to the 1.4 which was indeed a bit long).

I tried some things but removing this remaining break, which is the break that is automatically added after sentences by Azure, is not trivial.

[bertfrees]

I turned out to be easier than I thought. I found a way to specify the exact gap length that Azure adds. @torchtrust What would be the ideal length for you? And should it depend on the speech-rate setting?

[torchtrust]

Great Bert, my Audio Transcription coordinator recons: I think the gap should vary with the speed of the reader but if not I'd favour about 0.75s (with 140wpm). Does that make sense?

[bertfrees]

OK!

Just one more question: you say 0,75 s for 140 wpm: is that 140 wpm based on your preferred speed? And is that indeed what you get when you set speech-rateto -12%? I'm asking because I'm currently basing my calculations for setting the speed of Azure's voices on https://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/aural.html#propdef-speech-rate, in other words I'm currently making the assumption that Azure's default rate is between 180 and 200 wpm. But that might be inaccurate.

[torchtrust]

So I did an experiment and set: book {speech-rate: 140 } so now we are getting about 1.5 seconds so we need half that.

[torchtrust]

Just wondered on the progress of this?
Thanks
Paul

[bertfrees]

Hi Paul. This is done. It will be in the upcoming release.

[torchtrust]

Great! Thanks so much!

…

On Thu, 10 Apr 2025 at 13:24, Bert Frees ***@***.***> wrote: Hi Paul. This is done. It will be in the upcoming release. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#813 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AASSUUNH43NSGDOY4CFVLRD2YZPIPAVCNFSM6AAAAABWMJKBAWVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43URDJONRXK43TNFXW4Q3PNVWWK3TUHMYTENZZGEYTGMQ> . You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: ***@***.***>

-- *Paul Wood* Head of Technical Services *Torch Trust* Torch House, Torch Way, Market Harborough, Leics. LE16 9HL, UK Direct Line: *+44(0)1858 438269* Mobile: *+44(0)7521 514212* Tel: *+44(0)1858 438260* Email: ***@***.*** Websites: www.torchtrust.org www.sightlossfriendlychurch.org.uk <https://torchtrust.org/sight-loss-friendly-church> Facebook: Torch-Trust <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Torch-Trust/209414622516639> Twitter: @torchtrust <https://twitter.com/TorchTrust> YouTube: Torch Trust on Video <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjh3k2t6SckTWOtQZNmkN8w> [image: Walking By Faith from Torch Trust - Listen to us on your favourite podcast platform, or here on website torchtrust.org/radio-podcasts] <https://www.torchtrust.org/radio> [image: Registered with the Fundraising Regulator] <https://www.fundraisingregulator.org.uk/> Charity No. 1095904 Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the intended recipient please destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. The computer from which this mail originates is equipped with virus screening software. However Torch Trust cannot guarantee that the mail and its attachments are free from virus infection.

[torchtrust]

I tested this with 1.8 beta2 and the gap is the same. Is there something I am doing wrong?

[bertfrees]

Hi Paul, the beta hasn't got these changes yet. They will be in the final release.

[torchtrust]

Ok, thanks for the update. Can you please remind me of the timeline for the release?

…

On Mon, 19 May 2025 at 13:18, Bert Frees ***@***.***> wrote: Hi Paul, the beta hasn't got these changes yet. They will be in the final release. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#813 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AASSUUIFCMAMKLFVFRU3O4L27HDYRAVCNFSM6AAAAABWMJKBAWVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43URDJONRXK43TNFXW4Q3PNVWWK3TUHMYTGMJZGMZDMMQ> . You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: ***@***.***>

-- *Paul Wood* Head of Technical Services *Torch Trust* Torch House, Torch Way, Market Harborough, Leics. LE16 9HL, UK Direct Line: *+44(0)1858 438269* Mobile: *+44(0)7521 514212* Tel: *+44(0)1858 438260* Email: ***@***.*** Websites: www.torchtrust.org www.sightlossfriendlychurch.org.uk <https://torchtrust.org/sight-loss-friendly-church> Facebook: Torch-Trust <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Torch-Trust/209414622516639> Twitter: @torchtrust <https://twitter.com/TorchTrust> YouTube: Torch Trust on Video <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjh3k2t6SckTWOtQZNmkN8w> [image: Walking By Faith from Torch Trust - Listen to us on your favourite podcast platform, or here on website torchtrust.org/radio-podcasts] <https://www.torchtrust.org/radio> [image: Registered with the Fundraising Regulator] <https://www.fundraisingregulator.org.uk/> Charity No. 1095904 Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the intended recipient please destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. The computer from which this mail originates is equipped with virus screening software. However Torch Trust cannot guarantee that the mail and its attachments are free from virus infection.